Getting the toad lined up for tomorrow's departure, an old problem reoccured. Again.

Our toad is an 84 Toyota 4 cyl. It has been giving me starter trouble for the last several years. About twice a year. The failure mode is when I attempt to start, I can hear the solenoid click, the lights dim a little, but no engine rotation. The lights dimming tells me the starter motor is getting current, but doesn't want to turn. If I hit the starter with a hammer while Susan turns the key to start, it will then start. Sometimes, it will start by repeated attempts, and then will work for months. Tonight, when it failed to start, I let it roll backwards down the driveway in reverse with the clutch out. I engaged the clutch and the starter at the same time for just a moment to force the starter to turn, then immediately stopped. Then it started normally, and continued to do so several times. I have pushed it on level ground to do the same thing, as well. It acts like a dead spot on the commutator or a bad loop in the armature. Or poor brush contact. But..... each new starter ends up doing the same thing. Sooner or later.

This is particularly unsettling, as we are often way back in the bushes, far from cellphone reception or anything.

I have disassembled and cleaned the solenoid at least once, and replaced the starter/solenoid combination two or three times. Being a 4WD, the starter is accessed by removing a wheel and the inner fender well, and I am getting tired of it.

BTW, I live a mile from the ocean, so dampness could be a factor. But, no other vehicle has ever been this way, not even the previous similar Toyota.

Battery is good, (has been switched) cables are heavy and connections super clean. There has been no evidence to make me think any corrosion started creeping up inside the cables.

I even carry a spare starter.

I have not put a voltmeter on any of the terminals when this happens, as it always happens at a bad time or place. I have repaired and rebuilt a bunch of starters, both in the shop and along the road, and never had such a problem.

Am I getting bad starters? Am I overlooking something? Is there some particular technique that will allow me to do my own rebuild that will last? Should I be considering stronger brush springs? Better brushes?

I think I may soon replace the cables, even though they look perfect and have been recently filed flat and shiny.

This posted in hope that the vast knowledge base of Barth owners includes some Toyota knowledge that I missed out on.

Bill, I think you have a perverse gremlin that doesn't like you to let your Toy truck sit too long.

Many years ago my parents were in a nursing home in Portland, OR. We drove down once a month to visit them. One of our cars was a VW Squareback that never, never caused us any trouble, except when we drove it to Portland. Anywhere south of Chehalis, WA, on I-5, the starter wouldn't work. Everything else electrical continued to work, but the starter was dead. I could push start it easily, & I took to parking it on a rise where it could roll down to start. As soon as we were home, the problem disappeared.

Sometimes there's just no accounting for the perversity of inanimate objects. Maybe your '84 just wants you to retire it.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
Bill, I think you have a perverse gremlin that doesn't like you to let your Toy truck sit too long.

You could be right. We were in the AZ desert for two months this winter, and drove it every day without incident. Went to Phoenix, Wickenburg, Parker, all over.

Here at home, it sits pretty much until we go in the desert or just need a toad. Our last two trips did not require a toad. Susan does not like a stick, and my preferred transportation is a bicycle for my health or a motorcycle for my pleasure and fuel conservation. Plus I get to dress up like a badass and make a lot of noise.

quote:

Many years ago my parents were in a nursing home in Portland, OR. We drove down once a month to visit them. One of our cars was a VW Squareback that never, never caused us any trouble, except when we drove it to Portland. Anywhere south of Chehalis, WA, on I-5, the starter wouldn't work. Everything else electrical continued to work, but the starter was dead. I could push start it easily, & I took to parking it on a rise where it could roll down to start. As soon as we were home, the problem disappeared.

Sometimes there's just no accounting for the perversity of inanimate objects.

Thank you. It comforts me to know that this happens to other people. Misery loves company.

quote:

Maybe your '84 just wants you to retire it.

Now, how could I replace something like this?



By coincidence, my eldest is going overseas for two years, and is getting rid of his late Toyota TRD 4door 4WD Tundra. It is a nice truck, but it can't go where we go, owing to its longer wheelbase, and its lack of a locker up front. I think it is wider, as well.


We will be out in the Mojave this weekend, so wish us luck.

Hmmmm. If I were a little old Toyota stick shift 4-banger, lifted high, perched on big, fat tires, thoroughly skid-plated, with a heavy tubular bumper & tow bar hung right on my snout, I'd probably object to being waked up after a long sleep, too. I'd know what was coming.

If you are concerned about cable corrosion, you might try some clear jacket "monster" type cable. It would be easier to check for green copper corrosion.

I dont really know where your starter is on a toyota,but when i built my 69 rs/ss 350 camaro i was burning up starters left n right,every few months..until i looked at the obvious,which was using a heat shield
and heat wrap. the exhaust tube was running too close to the starter causing failure every couple of months..i read somewhere in here someone else was preaching about a heatshield...its one of the cheapest ways to save on starters... just a thought

ZIM

quote:

Originally posted by ZIM:
I dont really know where your starter is on a toyota,but when i built my 69 rs/ss 350 camaro i was burning up starters left n right,every few months..until i looked at the obvious,which was using a heat shield
and heat wrap. the exhaust tube was running too close to the starter causing failure every couple of months..i read somewhere in here someone else was preaching about a heatshield...its one of the cheapest ways to save on starters... just a thought

ZIM

Good thought for Chevies. They do indeed need a heatshield.

The Toyota starter is not in a hot spot, though.

I'm gonna replace cables and put a new push-on connecter on the solenoid from the switch. I believe I will run a new heavy wire up as a temp wire for the start connection on the solenoid. If it acts up again, I will energize the temp wire, bypassing the old wiring and ign switch.

It's kind of funny.....when I am in a bad spot, I say, "please start", but when in my driveway with no urgent schedule, I say "please just click", so I can do a little trouble shooting.

It's like praying to Odin and getting Loki, instead.

Since I hear (and feel) the solenoid engage, and see a voltage drop, I can't get past this idée fixe that the problem is in the starter itself. But, it is a little hard to believe, even in this day of the cheapest possible labor, that three rebuilt starters could be bad.

Oh, yeah. The trip went well. No starter problems. Did a little winch work, as well, so I know for sure that some of the cables are good. It's a big winch.

It is really neat to be out in the desert, and see snow on the mountains and fresh-blooming poppies and other wildflowers almost across the horizon. And the smell of racing fuel and castor oil.

quote:

Originally posted by olroy:
Hmmmm. If I were a little old Toyota stick shift 4-banger, lifted high, perched on big, fat tires, thoroughly skid-plated, with a heavy tubular bumper & tow bar hung right on my snout, I'd probably object to being waked up after a long sleep, too. I'd know what was coming.

Yeah, he knows what is coming. And he's ready to go. Just like my dog does when I pick up his leash.

Bill, once had a similar problem. It was the ground. Not the battery ground, the chasis ground.
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Chevalier:
If you are concerned about cable corrosion, you might try some clear jacket "monster" type cable. It would be easier to check for green copper corrosion.

Good idea. Heck since I'm buying or making new hot and ground cables, the clear insulation sounds good. How heavy does it come, and who sells it?

I bought some #2/0 at Autozone in longer lengths than was needed and cut it down. I soldered copper lugs and applied heat shrink tubing on all of the ends. You can also buy the Monster branded cable at Tweeters or Circuit City audio shops. I had a phantom starter problem years ago on a 75 Ford Granada which was caused by a bad battery cable. Good luck- electrical problems are never fun to diagnose.