Coach is a '93 Breakaway, 28' on Spartan EC2242 chassis. I have lost all faith in the one shop in Knoxville I found to do front end suspension work. Now I need to get this Breakaway to the point where I want to drive it anywhere anytime. I drove it from Denver to Knoxville and it was ok. It is still ok but I would like it to handle better. Has new tires, new shocks. Used to have a Steer Safe on it. The shop said it made the coach wander so they took it off. I will drive it anywhere in the southeast if there is someplace that knows how to make these old Breakaways steer right. I cannot do the work myself. Need some leads.

Can you describe the steering issues? With the overhang, front/back weight ratio, and short wheel base, it will not be as good as your other coach.

There are a few things that can be done to make it better but I don't think it will ever be perfect.

Do steering issues get worse with increase in speed?

I think you had an alignment check? What was the caster?

What pressure are you running in the tires?

Parked, engine off, what kind of movement can you do with the steering wheel side to side with out tire movement.Watch the front wheel as you are turning the steering wheel and when you see the front wheel just start to move, reverse the direction of the steering wheel until the front wheel starts to move in the opposite direction, note the amount of steering wheel movement.

With 65K miles +/- king pins and ball joints should not be an issue. Spring ends may be an issue as the rubber does deteriorate with time.

What is the shape of the pan hard rod on the rear axle?

You are

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
Coach is a '93 Breakaway, 28' on Spartan EC2242 chassis. I have lost all faith in the one shop in Knoxville I found to do front end suspension work. Now I need to get this Breakaway to the point where I want to drive it anywhere anytime. I drove it from Denver to Knoxville and it was ok. It is still ok but I would like it to handle better. Has new tires, new shocks. Used to have a Steer Safe on it. The shop said it made the coach wander so they took it off. I will drive it anywhere in the southeast if there is someplace that knows how to make these old Breakaways steer right. I cannot do the work myself. Need some leads.

-------------Jim and Tere one is at the mercy of the shop one chooses,i found that out the other day.My 7.5 kohler propane powered gen.progressively, conked out at lesser time intervals till not kicking in at all.I looked up under generators in the yellow pages finally finding one that supposedly had propane certification,and did mobile service.The tech had a 15 min drive,and started diagnosing right away,to no avail.He said he would have to have the unit serviced at the shop,saying that it would be 20min out,20min out.As we were pulling away I asked why I don't write out a work order?he said he had my unit now and grinned,Oh-Oh-no1.Onthe way home I told him that I checked out the fuses,oil level,and one of the two spark plug,specifically,stating that the other might of been neglected.He agreed.Couple of days later I checked to see how things are going?shaking me up when he said that the generator was apart and would need rewinding at a cost of 2000bucks just for the part.I immediately went down and picked up the unit,after 532 bucks on my visa as they asked for my no prior to working on my unit.I later took out the hard to get spark plug,suspecting that it is the original.I think that this the reason the unit stopped working.In bc small claim courts take on cases up to 15000 dollars,without having to hire a lawyer.I will do my homework and proceed.I have a few options,one of them being putting in a 3kva Honda or Suzuki invertor,i know some of you have done so.Another is a 4kva onan gas unit with approx. 200 hrs on it,the shop wants 1500 dollars for it,repairing it after rodents damaged it.I would do without it,yet why should I?This I my first major expense unfortunately due to shoddy work.Wally 34ft generator-less monarch

By PM Jim mentioned what had been checked, and I'm with Ed - the panhard rod is suspect. Spartan had two versions, one a lubed metal-on-metal the other, rubber bushed. The locationon mine is different from Ed's - his goes from the frame to the diffy; mine goes from the frame to the axle, very near the wheel. It sports greased metal bushings.

Panhard rod? I'm guessing its the round thing that goes from one side to the other. Looked at it the other day and noticed to grease nipples. Will take picture.

quote:

Parked, engine off, what kind of movement can you do with the steering wheel side to side with out tire movement.Watch the front wheel as you are turning the steering wheel and when you see the front wheel just start to move, reverse the direction of the steering wheel until the front wheel starts to move in the opposite direction, note the amount of steering wheel movement.

With the engine off, I look out the window and turn the steering wheel and it seems I start to see wheel movement almost immediately, maybe 1" or at the most two of the steering wheel. Going the other way,about the same. Will post pics of the panhard rod tomorrow

have a 9 breakaway and have some comments. the shorter chassis with a lot of overhang weight in back will have a lot of "polar inertia" ( when you first turn the wheel the back will start swinging out and not want to stop causing sway and over-steer. This requires a slight change in driving style- do not whip the wheel but make very gradual corrections and if quick turning is necessary start with a gradual turn and then tighten as the rear stops swinging out. requires some practice. Second because of the rear weight behind the wheels this chassis is much more sensitive to any play in the suspension. With mine because of the air suspension I double socked it front and rear, then added 4 degree of caster shim, adjusted some excess play from one wheel baring, and switched to 225r70 tires on front. all helped but it will still take a more relaxed form of driving. All those Corvair or Porsche drivers would understand.

I certainly agree with everything John says. That is why I asked the question about steering response and road speed, higher road speed will create higher polar inertia. I have done about all I can do to mine and it still is not as tight steering as my SOB with a P30 something chassis.

At 55 MPH my coach is quite stable and steering inputs and response is good, BUT, at 70-75 much more driver attention is required.

I also added about 3-4 degrees to the caster, it is now about 6 degrees, that made a difference in handling and easier because it is not as sensitive to steering input. Read slower to respond! Still much better with tracking. The effects of caster are well known to racing community.

I also changed tires all the way around to 225R70 19.5, load rating "G". I found that reducing tire pressure to 80-85 lbs on the front improved steering feel and was more relaxed to drive.

Weight balance front to rear has the most influence on drive ability as John said and I have said previously. Spartan engineers have told me that when you get down to to 30% front to rear weight ratio, handling will adversely be affected.

After all I have done to my Breakaway, analyzing results, changing things, analyzing more results, I can say that I have it probably the best it will ever get. I have been fortunate that I can do the work myself and have a good deal of knowledge from my racing days about suspension and directional control systems. I didn't just throw parts at it assuming that it would be better.

I did replace rubber and plastic parts as these will deteriorate not only with use but with time. I have and continue to measure the sloop in the tie rod ball joints and king pins. at 205K mile now on the clock, they still are acceptable and changing would NOT result in any change in handling.

Can't say if Dana front axles are more prone to king pin wear but certainly tie rod ball joint wear should be similar unless the boots are compromised and moisture or dirt were introduced.

A short diesel pusher with a short wheel base with a high rear weight will NEVER handle as well as a longer diesel pusher coach or front wheel drive coach.

I have 8r19.5 Bridgestones on the rear and 225R7019.5 Goodyear G670 on the front. I haven't had the coach weighed yet but with a 6000# front axle weight rating, assuming full loading, the Goodyear load table says that you should not be more than 75PSI which is what I have. Assuming 12000# on the rear, which is what mine is rated at by Spartan, you would run 95PSI according to the Bridgestone load tables which I am not sure I know how to read. I currently run 80PSI on the back, which is what you would do if you had Goodyear 225R7019.5s. Do you think it would make a significant difference to put Goodyear 225R7019.5s on the rear? I would loose about 70RPM due to the size difference. Mine is on springs front and rear. The bushings have never been replaced. Would that make a difference? I know the bushings are bad just because they are 20 years old, so they should be replaced no matter what.
At 45 mph, there is absolutely no problem. I don't drive over 60 and it's only between 55 and 60 that it begins to wander. Alignment done in Denver
Front Axle left camber .7degrees, caster 7.1 degrees, toe .05degrees.
Right-camber .2 degrees, caster 7.3 degrees, toe .05 degrees.
Front Axle cross camber .6degrees, cross caster .3 degrees, total toe .10 degrees.
Ed, I'll send you the alignment report via email.
Both front and rear tires are load range F. What is the advantage of going to load range G?
Do you think I should put the Steer Safe stuff back on? What about the Safe T Plus system that looks like a big shock absorber and attaches to the tie rod?

Not much to add except it is kinda like the tail wagging the dog. Handling is ok in wind free interstate driving, but high side winds are nasty. On the way back from KY to AZ the winds were so bad in OK we simply shut it down and waited until morning.

One thing that does help is the toad. Seems to stabilize the tail. Probably hard on the toad but so far (40K miles) no problems encountered.

I do have one strange thing. Feels like a front tire out of balance. Mostly above 70mph. I will be running along smoothly and then start shaking for a bit and then smooths out again. If I recall right this problem was common on the dodge chassis and maybe any solid axle front end. Going to take it into the tire shop and have them check out high speed balance.

Here are the pics of what I think is the panhard rod. One end attached to the streetside frame rail, the other side attached to the axle.





Jim

That's it

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
I have 8r19.5 Bridgestones on the rear

I love Bridgestones on my P30, but a few Barthers have not loved them on their Breakaways.

I will not opine whether or not the BS are the problem, but perhaps a Breakaway owner or two will comment.

Having said that, I agree with Rusty and Ed that the Panhard rod is the thing to check first. It is there to prevent or minimize the tail wagging the dog motion.

As Rusty said, "that's it"

Now crawl under there and while you are there, have someone at the vary rear of the coach push the coach in a rhythm so that the back will swing side to side. See if there is any movement or noise around either end of the pan hard rod. If you want, you can touch the ends for movement but make sure if it is moving, don't pinch your fingers.

If it is moving, it will need to be replaced. On mine when I first got it there was over 1/2 inch of movement (1/4 inch each end) and replacing it greatly reduce the wonder.

Your caster spec look good, toe looks good. You have more caster than I do! Those specs do not suggest any problem.

zerks appear to have been recently greased (or at least wiped off).