My 454 use to run hot in a 1984 25" Regal. My corrections a new radiator 3/8 by 3/8 4 core,Removed oil cooler from it,installed its own on left side between frame rail and storage comparment, pluged all gaps infront of radiator,installed 6"air ducts too both sides of motor too front of exhust manifolds that also helps the plug wires last a little longer. BRES

Hoo Boy.........here we go.

Preamble: As an avid water skier and rump-rump boat guy, I have made a lot of summer climbs over Chiriaco summit behind a 454. Trout fishing has forced me from Bishop to Mammoth, too. I have been forced to learn a lot about 454s and heat.

There are a lot of reasons for 454 overheating.

One biggie, as Bres mentioned, is lousy engineering at the motor home factory. Yes, folks, even Barth screwed up now and then. And, as Bob Gramer mentioned, a lot of stuff up there can block the radiator air flow. ALL, and I mean ALL air going in the grille should go through the radiator. That means taping up that rubber flap on top and gluing, velcro-ing or snapping in flaps of vinyl or rubber on each side and the bottom of the area between the radiator and grille.

As a side issue, since Bob mentioned Airstream owners having 454 heating issues, I wonder if Airstream has enough grille area. My Barth has a 502 which produces 518 ft lbs of torque and has siamese bores, so it is a cooker. In addition, all that torque puts the torque converter under a lot of stress, and the result is lots of heat. My B&M trans cooler is not enough, and I will be adding another before summer. I mention all this to make the point that it is possible to cool a big block chevy engine quite well in a Barth. Perhaps I should troll a few Airsteam sites and see what they are saying.

Biggie number two is how the air goes out of the engine area. The biggest improvement can be effected by installing a splash shield on the right side. You are familiar with the one on the left. They did not install one on the right side. You may be aware that most ignition cable and manifold problems are on the right side. Chevrolet realized this on 7/15/93, and installed pn 15983041 from then on. You might have to try several chevy parts depts, as it seems to be a stumbling block for them. They might have to convert the number. If you can't get one, I will send a pattern to any supporting member.

A spoiler behind the front bumper made of rubber/vinyl yard edging will help create a low pressure area behind the radiator. This will aid cooling air flow through the radiator. Make your Barth look like a street racer.


Bres is right with the ducts. I use 4 inch dryer ducting. While you're at it, run a duct for cold air into the air cleaner snout.

I also use a US Radiator Desert Cooler radiator. Have for years on everything.
And a Moroso high flow water pump, Redline Water Wetter, and NAPA hoses. Be sure the lower radiator hose has a coil in it. Listen for your fan on cold start up. It should roar like a P47 for a block or so, then get quiet. Block the radiator with paper and watch the temp and listen for the roar. It should roar at around 210. If it doesn't, buy a new factory fan clutch from Chevrolet. They get old and tired.

Be very afraid of the hose between the water pump and manifold. It is a bear to change. Change it in your driveway, not on the road. I use a steel reinforced hose from West Marine.

Headers help the heat thing, too, as do free flowing mufflers.

Removing the dash air condenser allows a lot more air flow to cool the engine, and removes the AC heat load on the radiator. If you need air conditioning, run the gen as you drive and use the roof air. It will actually consume less gas. Figures on request. Then you can remove the compressor and rebuild your doghouse so it is lower and flatter, so the dog can sleep on it. Really keeps them out of the way. Then you can get rid of the big tall air cleaner and install a lower one, too.

All trans heat is dumped in to the radiator, unless you have a cooler in some other air stream. A good trans cooler helps here, as does synthetic fluid. Install a gauge and watch trans temp.

As for the oil cooler, Chevrolet is a joke with their air conditioning style lines and fittings. Heck, the ends are smaller than a soda straw. Like Bres, I do not use the radiator oil cooler. I use an adapter between the filter and block that has 1/2 NPT ports, and run 3/4 steel braid lines to a B&M 70266 in front of the radiator. I also use another 70266 as a tranny cooler. They really mount nicely in a Barth. Picture on request. The 70266 was the largest available when I did mine, but a 70274 would be even better.

Search for my earlier posts on other engine heat issues.

Bill I was thinking of adding to my air cleaner for two filters stacked.less chance of it pluging i think.Why would you lower it?? How did you solve your axle wrap?BRES

You are right. Two elements stacked will indeed have less chance of plugging.

However, for street driving, filter plugging is a slow process. The 2 1/2 inch tall filter will last a very long time. An air filter gradually restricts air flow as it collects dirt. At around 20 or 25 inches of water pressure differential, power is affected, as is mileage. This is first noticed at full throttle. A "Filter Minder" is a plastic shot glass sized device that keeps track of the highest suction the system has ever seen. When the indicator is in the red, you change your filter and reset the filter minder. It is as simple as that. I use a 2 1/2 inch tall element on my Barth, the same size that is on my 454 pickup, and it lasts pretty well. I use a Baldwin PA2008 paper element and a Baldwin PA2008 foam (polyster) overwrap as well. When it becomes dark gray with dirt, I hand wash it, air dry it, and reinstall it. This sounds like overkill, but it has served me well in dune buggy desert racing and four wheeling.

To sum up, the 454 is very happy with a 2 1/2 inch tall element and a filter minder will allow you to monitor its restriction.

A Filter Minder will pay for itself in avoiding premature element replacement.

http://www.filterminder.com

The engineer there with whom I have conferred is Ron Kelderman. He is quite helpful if you have any questions beyond the web site info.

RKelderman@FilterMinder.com

At Baldwin, my contact is TRAVIS R. WINBERG,
Service Engineering Supervisor.

Twinberg@hastingsfilter.com

Both Baldwin filters and Filter Minders are available at a truck fleet supply dealer.

In answer to "why did you lower it?", I lowered the filter top to lower and level the doghouse top so we could put the dog's bed on it to get him out from under foot in the coach. He is a big boy, and when he walks around and wags, his tail bops the cat. Then she gets an attitude and he thinks she is playing and away they go. So, the short answer is to keep the cat happy.

bill h,

When you get the opportunity, I would like to have a picture of your oil cooler/transmission cooler arrangement. I am just getting into a trans overheating problem and am looking for solution ideas.

Dennis

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Dennis, it is on the way. Any questions, shoot.

Bres, I forgot to mention another reason for the short filter element. If you install a Performer intake manifold, it is taller, which might not leave room under the doghouse.

Take a drive with a 4000 lb toad. Then take the same drive without it. That is how much improvement the Performer gives you.

Bill, Just when I thought I was happy with my Barth....I would like to hear more about the Performer manifold. You mentioned something the other day about starting a 454 thread. I think that is a great idea.

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Bill & Diane
1973 25'
454 CID P-30 Chassis
German Shepard Dog

Bill, if you thought you were happy with your Barth, you should stay happy.

I have fiddle-itis. I can't leave anything alone. And, of course, I like more power. We tow a 4000# plus boat or 4WD, and climb high altitude grades, so more power is welcome.

If you want more power, do Thorley headers and good mufflers first, then the Performer or the now OOP Weiand 8017, if you are AIR-free. It's a good combination.

Dang it all, bill h, every time you make a post, it makes more work for me. I've got fiddle-itis too. Fixed a whole lot of stuff that wasn't broke, in my lfe (not always successfully). My new-old '90 Regal is going to be the same, though I've got a lot of stuff that's broke to fix first..

Question: I have Banks with a tall, oiled air cleaner element, headers, and a dual inlet, single outlet muffler. It accelerates nicely, cruises well on light throttle, but ran out of breath climbing the Siskiyous on the way home last month. I shift down at 40-45 mph, and second doesn't do any better than maintain that speed on heavy throttle.
Air-flow restrriction? Secondaries too rich or too lean? All the above or something else? I'll have to fiddle with it to find out. Any suggestions?

I weighed the rig when I got home, and I'm hauling around 21,000 lbs. with the toad. Fuel mileage averaged about 5.6. I cruise around 65 mph. Am I baying at the moon to hope to improve fuel economy, or is that about what I can expect at 65 w/21K lbs.??

A 454 thread sounds like a super idea. Lots of us with gas rigs have 'em, and they're one of the most-frequently modified engines around.

Figures on dash vs. genny a/c? (Per your first post on this thread)

OK, Roy, here are the figures from another fellow that I saved:

quote:

"I use my house A/C when I need extra cooling, you asked for numbers, lucky you, I am a numbers freak. Right now the cost of gas in the prairies is approx. $3.00 Canadian per gallon. My genset (onan 4Kw) uses .8 gallons per hour powering the AC. So my cost per hour for the A/C using the genset is $2.40. Driving responsibly with the dash A/C off I get 10 mpg. 60 miles divided by 10 mpg = 6 gallons, or a cost of $18.00 per hour to drive. Driving responsibly with the dash A/C on I get 7 mpg. (60 miles divided by 7 mpg = 8.57 gallons, or a cost of $25.71 per hour to drive)
So if I take the “With” cost ($25.71) and subtract the “Without” cost ($18.00), that means my dash A/C costs me $7.71 per hour to run.

Short version:

Genset A/C = $2.40 per hour to run.
Dash A/C = $7.71 per hour to run.
Dash air is 321% more expensive for poorer cooling."

I should say here that I find his figure of a 3 mpg drop with dash air inconsistent with my own observations. But no matter how you cut the cards, roof air and genset operation is better. And there are the added virtues of being able to run your fridge on AC and exercising your genset. Gensets love to run.

My own experience with a previous P30 is between 1/2 and one mpg better when using roof air instead of dash air. We usually just run the front one. I have no figures on my present rig, as I removed the dash air condenser when I installed the 502.


As for mileage, I get over 6 with a 4K toad or boat on level ground. Any hills really knock it down. Around 5.8 is average for me with mountains and toad. Heck, if I just walk up in front and hold up a PICTURE of a mountain, the gas gauge starts to go down. The only fuel figure that means anything is a long trip on level ground with a light throttle. As soon as a hill enters the equation, so many variables change. The owner of my previous coach gets far better mileage than I ever did. Go figure.

As for power, the best test is to compare with a similar coach. All hills are different. Or use the same hill with different "improvements".

AS for your coach, I doubt that you have any intake air flow restriction. The oiled filters do not restrict much air or dirt. I presume your Banks set up has the cold air inlet, so that is good. You can make a manometer with colored water and clear vinyl tube if you want to check for restriction. You carb might need a little tweaking. Q jets like to soak their floats or stick their power enrichment needles. I can make a Holley sing and dance, but I send my Q jets to C&J Engineering in Whittier CA. They accomplish in a couple of days what it would take me a looooooooong time to do. I should point out here that all elderly Q jets have the potential of fuel leakage from a soft plug underneath. Bad thing, that. A cheap thing is to just replace the float, set the level, and be sure the power needles are free. Drive it up a hill with the air cleaner off and observe the secondaries. You can play with the wrap on the spring if you are so inclined. HP Publishing has a good book on Qjets. With today's gas, it is harder and harder (this from an old two stroker)to read mixture on the plugs. I have a fuel air ratio gauge which reads the EGT through the O2 sensor, but I haven't put it in yet.

I would also presume that your Banks muffler is pretty good.

You could fiddle with the timing. I like 36 degrees advance around 3000 RPM with high octane gas. In general, use more advance for more power and more expense. If your coach has two gas tanks, cruise on regular and climb on high octane. Several of my MHs had two tanks, but my BArth only has one. I may move my batteries and build a second tank in that spot. Maybe with a little Klotz in it.

However, 45 up a big hill with a toad doesn't sound all that bad. I have seen a sign in a speed shop saying: "Speed Costs Money. How Fast Do You Want To Go?" Well, speed also costs time and mileage. Everything is a trade-off.

Consider a Gear Vendors. Second overdrive really skips up the hills.

Renaming? Go for it.

Dave? Bres?

Renaming?

Sorry, I can't rename, I got the cheap forum software. I know that on some of the UBB (Ultimate Bullitin Board) packages you can move threads around but they cost thousands. You know like IRV2.com or RV.Net, they use the same software just a much more expensive package.

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Since there is 454 information all over this site, perhaps a search for "454" would be as good as trying to consolidate it all in one thread and keeping the continuity from previous dialog intact.

Opinions?

Bill H, I have a different theory about 454's with Q's.
I had a '76 GMC 3000 with 454. I got 8 mpg with a 10' self contained slide in and a boat behind. I got 8 mpg with the stock racks on and 6000 lb of beef in back. I got 8 mpg uphill, down hill. I got 8 mpg empty.
My theory, the fuel pump can only pump 1 gallon/8 miles thru the 3/8" fuel line.
Tim