Being that we don't know, what we don't know could some explain the advantages and dis-advantages of a tag axel. We have seen 33 foot Regals with and without tag axels, but they are the same length (maybe different chassis?). Our mind is open, please enlighten us as to the need for the extra wheels.

quote:

Originally posted by whamer:
Being that we don't know, what we don't know could some explain the advantages and dis-advantages of a tag axel. We have seen 33 foot Regals with and without tag axels, but they are the same length (maybe different chassis?). Our mind is open, please enlighten us as to the need for the extra wheels.

Whammer,
I believe it increase the GVW by 5000 lbs.
Gerry

I am sure that Bill H will chime in here on his SE with tags. Remember that any of these, or any other coach's in the 80's that were longer than 25 foot had an extension welded to the frame to have a 28, 30 or 33 foot motorhome. When you have a 33 with out a tag axle you have a monster over hang. Bounders didn't have tags and I have seen coaches which just looked silly with such a large overhang. Every tag axle driver I have talked to tells me the the stability is substantially enhanced by a tag axle. I truly think it is the way to go.

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I second Dave's observation. Odds are the tag is on a Chevy P30 chassis, and the non-tag, a Ford or something else.

The longer the P30, the more help it needs in the stability department. Properly equipped, they handle well, and may ride a little better than the stiffer springs and front beam axle on the Fords, but that's a guess. I'm only experienced with the P30.

The tag definitely adds 5000 lbs. or so in carrying capacity, and makes the P30 track a lot better.

We could generate an argument over the relative merits of Chev. P30s vs. other makes, but in any event, I'm sure a tag enhances stability and load capacity, regardless of make.

My 33' 1991 Oshkosh/John Deere chassis Ford 460 with a C-6 transmission is without a tag. It rides well but not having driven one with a tag axle it is hard to say.

The data tag on my Barth says 18,000 GVW. 6,340 front & 12,000 rear.

It would be interesting to hear what other "Data Tags" say with and without tags and different wheel bases.

Huh, I just googled axle and axel and got this: The center of a wheel is its axle and axel is a tricky jump in figure skating named after Axel Paulsen. Who knew? Not me.

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http://www.truckroadservice.com/

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited August 12, 2004).]

We went from a non-tag 28 foot P30 to a tag 30 foot P30. The 28 footer had 22k miles and the 30 tag had 73k. The 30 tag felt so much better and more stable, by far. While I realize that I am not comparing identical coaches, the difference was ASTOUNDING!. Night and day. Heck, my wife could tell the difference in the first two minutes of the test drive and she was sitting in the dinette! Considering the 30 tag was higher, longer and heavier, it should have felt worse, not better. The P30 is not a great handling chassis, but the tag adds greatly needed stability. My motivation in buying a tag was to handle varying hitch weights, but the stability was an unexpected benefit. The extra set of brakes is a good feature, too.

PRO:The Chevy P30 needs a little help going down the road in a straight line. The tag helps quite a bit. It also allows the P30 chassis to carry more weight and eliminates some overhang. With air bag suspension, the pressure can be adjusted for trailer tongue load or a motorcycle on a rack. The tag brakes add to stopping power. Some like the looks of a tag axle coach.

CON:The tag axle is another set of bearings to maintain, another set of tires to buy, and another set of brakes to maintain, complete with its own master cylinder and Ultravac power unit. The tire issue is not as much a biggie as it seems, as you can run older tires on the lightly-loaded tag as long as they don't have sidewall cracks. The extra wheels also take up a little space that could be used for storage or a larger grey water tank. And you get to stress over where to buy shocks for the tag. The air bags need to be deflated for rough country boondocking to prevent the drive axle from losing traction. A sloped driveway with a dip where it meets the street can make things real interesting, too. Ask me how I know.

The Ford chassis does not seem to need a tag axle for stability, and doesn't need one for weight carrying until they get really long.

Tag Axle Follies.

When I first bought my tag Barth, there was a tail dragging issue. This was before I added the drive axle air bags and training wheels on the hitch. As I entered my sloping driveway with the obligatory gutter dip, the hitch began to cut gouges in the asphalt of the street. So I backed up, inflated the tag axle bags to a higher pressure for more rear clearance(pretty smart, huh?) and tried again. Well, with the tag bags fully inflated, my drive wheels dropped in to the dip where the driveway starts and lost traction due to much more weight being carried by the tag, and unfortunately, the hitch. Oh, the blue burnt rubber cloud was something to see (and smell).

So, there I was, hung up with the rear hitch dug into its own furrow in the blacktop, blocking traffic, unable to go forward or backward, and no traction. All I needed was Eyewitness News.

This was a Saturday afternoon, and all the neighbors had come out to see what caused the smell. One thing I learned, was just how witty my neighbors could be. I am the neighborhood wiseass, but I was the butt of everyone else's humor that day. One lady showed up with a tray of snacks, and another ran a cord to a blender and made margaritas. Since I had blocked most traffic in the street, it was a block party and I was the entertainment.

My driveway (and the street) was blocked by the coach, and the 4WD as in the street, so I had to unbolt the winch from the 4WD, drill a hole in the concrete driveway to anchor it, and rig up a battery connection to pull the MH forward out of the dip. Fortunately, as per my usual overkill, the 4WD was equipped with a winch that would lift twice the vehicle's weight straight up. I used a snatch block anyway, just to add to the complexity and drama of the event.

I now have air bags on the drive axle and training wheels on the frame. And I lay a plank in the dip, and deflate the tag bags when entering my *&%$@#^ driveway. Even so, I need a bit of momentum and perfect alignment to accomplish the maneuver. As I enter the driveway under power, the drive axle unloads a little, and the right pair of tires will lay rubber.

I now have air bags on the drive axle and training wheels on the frame. And I lay a plank in the dip, and deflate the tag bags when entering my *&%$@#^ driveway. Even so, I need a bit of momentum to accomplish the maneuver.

As I enter the driveway under power, the drive axle unloads a little, and the right pair of tires will lay rubber. This maneuver is further complicated by the mandatory turning required whenever a car is parked across the street, so the neighbors are still entertained and traffic is still blocked, although only momentarily.

Anyone got a good way to remove the rubber streaks from the sidewalk?


Some time later, I forgot all I learned and got hung up on a neighbor’s driveway just turning around, but with considerably less drama. Took less than half an hour that time.

I had a similar event at a particular intersection in Blythe, involving a rented dolly dragging a hors de combat 4WD home from the Arizona desert. It had a killer dip, and the rented dolly required that I invert my hitch slide-in, compromising my ground clearance abaft. The police were directing traffic and the city workers were there to watch me use my folding Army entrenching tool to dig up their blacktop to free a too-low hitch. As soon as I was done, they applied the cold patch material they had brought with them. Neighbors contributed advice and opinions, offered tools, but no Margaritas. I almost expected some enterprising youngster to set up a lemonade stand.

Everyone was very blasé about it happening again. It was a common occurrence at that intersection, and everybody dealt with it well, showing much previous experience. The ruts and patches in the road, and the debris in the gutter kept me from feeling like the Lone Ranger. I later spoke with a councilman who is a good friend, and he told they were very aware of that intersection, and very concerned, and told me how much it would cost to redo that intersection. Millions. Also had to rebuild my step (again) after that one.

I knew this had to happen somewhere sometime. The geometry changes if you back in, will this help or make for more block parties?
Tim

I never back up. Tried it once and hit a tree, dented the corner cap and wiped out a bedroom window awning. Wife even had a radio to guide me.

But, seriously, there is much less drama backing up the driveway. I don't know whether it is a learning curve thing or the drive axle air bags, skid wheels, and plank in the dip. Also, the driveway is concrete, so the receiver can't dig a hole and wedge itself in.



[This message has been edited by bill h (edited August 12, 2004).]

quote:

Originally posted by davebowers:
When you have a 33 with out a tag axle you have a monster over hang.

Yup. I just had to post this 34 Itasca

Although I've never seen anything in their literature about tag axles, rv.org uses wheelbase to length as a determinant in their road handling assessment for motorhomes. Anything under 50% of wheelbase divided by length they consider unsafe.

Extending a wheelbase with a tag axle would only seem to help this determinant.

http://rv.org/EB-16142.htm talks about their methodology.

Mike

"The bumblebee can't fly. Based on engineering analysis and calculations regarding the wing area, muscle mass, internal transfer of energy to the muscles, and so forth, the bumblebee is incapable of flight. The bumblebee, being completely unaware of its inadequacies, goes ahead and flies anyway"

And this is what I've observed with StaRV II, with its puny little 44% wheel-base-to-LOA. In searching for a keeper motorhome, I've driven quite a few. My 28' Breakaway (Spartan chassis with much more capacity than the placard), and handles noticeably better than any of the 30-32' motorhomes I've driven. Of course all the latter were diesel or gaso pullers.

But with sensible chassis design and proper loading, the coach doesn't know how much overhang it has. I've had it in Nebraska with gusty 20-35 mph crosswinds and in MO on the fringes of thunderstorms, and my little guy never realized she handled poorly. Now in a crosswind, sometimes I have to actually drive her, but never have I had to fight.

A tag axle would probably help, but there just aren't any shortcomings. Nevertheless, someday I want a 32' Regency, but not for handling - for more space for stuff.

Bill, try Simple Green. Use a lot, let it soak in, scrub with a stiff brush and possibly repeat a time or two. Works best on fresh rubber marks but should make a difference on old ones too.

There are four wheel drive tag axle that run a extra drive shaft from the front tag axle to the rear tag axle....would they be better? Eight drive wheels instead of four?

Truckers call them "twin screw" axles. They provide added traction to haul monster trailers, or heavy equipment.

The main reason for a tag on a motorhome is to increase GVW rating, but the heaviest motorhomes don't approach the weight of even average big rigs. I'm unaware of any twin screw axles on motorhomes, and, as noted in an earlier post here, tags are added when P-30 chassis' are extended.