Wondering the best way to start in cold weather. Normally I just turn the key and DO NOT push the accelerator but with my older Diesels I used to put it full bore to keep it running. However, that was before fuel injection. When I was in Show Low last week and it was just below freezing, block heater ran over night, it seemed that I needed to push on the accelerator for the engine to catch and keep spinning.

What technique to you guys use, other than never go where it is cold.

Will be in Flagstaff and Grand Canyon this weekend where it is cold(er).

Tom

PS Also the water heater does not work on AC. The element checks out for resistance so it is not fried. The gas part runs fine, would the problem be in the thermostat for the AC element? What to check?

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Loughney:
Wondering the best way to start in cold weather. Normally I just turn the key and DO NOT push the accelerator but with my older Diesels I used to put it full bore to keep it running. However, that was before fuel injection. When I was in Show Low last week and it was just below freezing, block heater ran over night, it seemed that I needed to push on the accelerator for the engine to catch and keep spinning.

Shouldn't have to punch the accelerator. But if it works, do it.

quote:

What technique to you guys use, other than never go where it is cold.

I'm considering a bypass switch to enable operating the glow plugs longer than the internal timer allows. However, I think the Cummins 8.3L uses a different system, which you might want to have checked by a Cummins tech.

quote:

Will be in Flagstaff and Grand Canyon this weekend where it is cold(er).

Tom

PS Also the water heater does not work on AC. The element checks out for resistance so it is not fried. The gas part runs fine, would the problem be in the thermostat for the AC element? What to check?

There should be a reset buttom on the HW tank itself. This will trip if the tank "overheats". I had this issue when the thermostat for the propane burner malfunctioned; the electric cutout works no matter what causes the overtemp.

According to the Cummins manual for the 5.9L diesel and I would assume that Cummins engines of the same era 1993-1996, non electronic, would start the same.--

Now here is where it might get confusing:

Automotive applications:
above 16C, 60F, idle throttle
below 16C, 60F, full throttle

Industrial/Marine:
above 0C, 32F, idle throttle
below 0C, 32F, full throttle

I have used the Industrial/Marine condition and that seems to work. Even if I have the block heater on, I still apply full throttle when starting below 0C, 32F. It will smoke heavily for a short time but clears quickly and then the idle will settle down.

I do not leave the block heater on all night, just for an hour or so before starting. If I have shore power, then I will leave it on.

Depending on the model, you may have an intake heater that will heat the incoming air of the intake that will facilitate starting, in that case, leave the key on for a short time to allow the heater to heat well enough to preheat the incoming air. (I don't have that) You may even have an annunciator to show that you should not go to start position until the intake heater is at optimum temperature. I think this was part of the "cold weather start kit" that Cummins offered.

It will not hurt the engine to start with full throttle and then hold a part throttle while warming.

HTH

Cold weather starting aids.
The Cummins operating manual we got with the coach says automotive engines should have the accelerator pedal depressed all the way to the start position then released before starting. They don't say what the start position is though??? To the floor then released maybe?
The book says to 32F starting is unaided. Between 32F and -10F starting aids (oil pan and block heaters) are suggested. Below -10F engine/oil heaters AND extra battery capacity are required. It also says you may inject "metered amounts" of starting fluid into the air intake while someone cranks the engine.
There is no mention of any type of fuel/air preheater anywhere in this book.
The options list for the coach that came from Barth mentions an "ether kit" but I have no idea if it is really there or how to work it!!
Our 8.3CTA starts instantly in warm weather(above about 60F) without doing anything except turning the key.
Down to freezing I turn on the key to the first position and let the warning buzzer go for 30- 60 seconds and it usually starts right up so I guess it has some kind of preheater. Mostly I don't remember to depress the accelerator, seems to make no difference.
In really cold weather it will start instantly if the block heater (1000 watt) is plugged in for an hour or two.
There is also a household type light switch above the drivers side window that says "engine heat". I don't know if this is for engine starting or (more likely) the switch that activates the Motoraid coach heating system. Doesn't seem to do anything when we put it in the "on" position. Anybody know what it is really for??
I am going to try a test start tonight or tomorrow morning if it gets cold enough and the sleet/snow we are getting now moves on. We'll see what works best.
The book also warns NOT to use a winter radiator cover with an air-to-air aftercooled engine. The rad cover will adversely affect engine performance.
Don

Although, a lot of Barths are equipped differently engines, etc. but some things may be the same. In our Breakaway, the overhead switch turns on an outlet in the electrical panel under the foot of the bed where the engine block heater is plugged in.

Same here; what I found was that the block heater wasn't plugged into that outlet - which was buried underneath the converter.

Oh boy! Confusing... On our blueprints that switch is found with this note: "Switch to auto heater in water tank compartment"...??? This switch and wiring to the water compartment shows up on 2 prints, one of which is 12 volt only. That's why I now think it is for the Motor-Aid heating system. It is labelled "engine heat", with a piece of tape, done by a p.o. no doubt.

Also, To test cold starting methods, I went out and fired up the Barth this morning. It's purring away out in the driveway right now. It is 25 degrees F. out there and I did as the book says, turned on the key to the first position, let it buzz for about 10 - 15 secs and depressed the accelerator to the floor and released. Then turned it over to ignition. It fired and sputtered and died the first time. Fired and ran the second time, real grumpy for a few seconds but evened out nicely after I increased the revs to 1000-1500 for a few secs with the pedal.It has not been started for 2 weeks, which was when I last had it out for some excercise. Most nights are well below freezing and days are barely 32 or less.
It was not plugged in to the block heater, but I did do that last winter when we were heading out to Arizona and it started instantly like it was summer time.
I'm gonna take her for a little run now, but after "THE BIG STORMS" - two of them, blow thru tonite and Sunday night and I get the snow cleared I'm gonna try another cold start with that "mystery switch" turned on and see if it makes a difference.
I find this interesting 'cause never have bothered to try starting her in cold weather, always wait for a nice sunny above freezing day, or we are south of the cold!
Don

Well, after reading all this great information about cold weather starting and since today is December 18 I thought I would go out and see it "Ugly Betty" would start okay. Only trouble was it was 78 degrees

You might try turning your mystery switch on and then go put your hand on the block near the heater or on the heater itself and see if it is getting warm. I can even hear my block heater when it is on and i am close to it......as long as there is not a lot of other noise around me.

I had the rig parked in Williams, Az for 3 nights. After the second night the drinking water froze, I had put a light bulb in the water compartment next to the water pump, I think the line feeding the pump froze. It was 8 degrees with a stiff wind. I had the electric block heater plugged in the third night.

So when I went to start the rig, I pushed the peddle to the floor, turned the switch and nothing at all happened. No warning lights, no sounds, and no starting. Check the battery and full charge, radio and head lights come on. Check the position of the start switch in the engine compartment, NADA.

So I turn the switch on and I hear the relay click on and off. Have the wife turn the switch to on and then off and I go outside to listen (warmed up to 20 by now), and the relay works just fine.

I decide to measure some volts across the relay, I turn the switch on, then put my gloves, hat and coat on, zip up, get the volt meter, open the door and the whole thing springs to life. After I left the key in the on position for about 2 min.

Took a few try's to get the engine running but all was fine after a few min. The ice melted when we got below 4,000 ft.

Is there a heating element in the starting circuits, or would leaving the switch on warm up the relay, but I could feel it clik on and off. I hate to take it to a mechanic and tell him this story.

Second comment. I put a Trikl Charger across the house to chassis batteries, kept them at 12.8 volts when I checked them with the volt meter. I had plenty of juice to crank the engine at 20 degrees, had to do it about 6 times at 10-15 seconds each time before it got running, but the batteries were really happy.

When was the last time you cleaned your battery cable ends and the battery terminal posts? Even if they look good, take them off and see if they are bright and somewhat shiny or if they are dark and dull looking. A little tarnish can make a big difference on whether you are getting enough or even any juice to the stater.

I have the same engine, trans and chassis. Must be a nearly identical coach. Starting engine block heater and fuel pre-heater are the same. It's necessary to manually plug in the block heater in the engine compartment.

quote:

Originally posted by Don in Niagara:
Oh boy! Confusing... On our blueprints that switch is found with this note: "Switch to auto heater in water tank compartment"...??? This switch and wiring to the water compartment shows up on 2 prints, one of which is 12 volt only. That's why I now think it is for the Motor-Aid heating system. It is labelled "engine heat", with a piece of tape, done by a p.o. no doubt.

Also, To test cold starting methods, I went out and fired up the Barth this morning. It's purring away out in the driveway right now. It is 25 degrees F. out there and I did as the book says, turned on the key to the first position, let it buzz for about 10 - 15 secs and depressed the accelerator to the floor and released. Then turned it over to ignition. It fired and sputtered and died the first time. Fired and ran the second time, real grumpy for a few seconds but evened out nicely after I increased the revs to 1000-1500 for a few secs with the pedal.It has not been started for 2 weeks, which was when I last had it out for some excercise. Most nights are well below freezing and days are barely 32 or less.
It was not plugged in to the block heater, but I did do that last winter when we were heading out to Arizona and it started instantly like it was summer time.
I'm gonna take her for a little run now, but after "THE BIG STORMS" - two of them, blow thru tonite and Sunday night and I get the snow cleared I'm gonna try another cold start with that "mystery switch" turned on and see if it makes a difference.
I find this interesting 'cause never have bothered to try starting her in cold weather, always wait for a nice sunny above freezing day, or we are south of the cold!
Don