quote:

" section of http://cliffshighperformance.com/
On the topic of knocking and pinging, at one time guys would run water injection kits. Is that done anymore?

HAPPY MOTORING!
Matt

MY first dealings with water injection was in the late 70s. When unleaded gas lacked the lead and Sunoco 260 disappeared the octane level in the 87 area. octane is the resistance to fuel burning. The higher the octane the more compression and heat gas can take before igniting. My understanding water not burning raises this point before detonating under higher compression. The water produces no power and lowers power over proper octane fuel, It was used by many hot rodders that had built high compression engines that they couldn't get fuel to run them. With better combustion chamber design, fuel & spark management & 93 octane unleaded the use of water injection went away. More of a remedy than a fix.

quote:

Originally posted by Doorman:
More of a remedy than a fix.

I agree. The use of water injection goes back to the golden age of piston engines, i.e., WWII. The aircraft engines of the day had to be supercharged or turbocharged in order to make power at high altitudes. They were capable of high boost levels. Meanwhile, it was possible to run boost for brief periods at low altitudes, esp for takeoff. Given the crude waste gate and control designs, it was easy to over boost, detonate, and destroy the engine in seconds.

OTH, if you are trying to take off heavy from a short field, and/or someone is shooting at you…

Many of the aircraft had water injection that operated during periods of high boost pressure to quench the mixture and hopefully reduce detonation. Very crude systems, crudely regulated and didn't have much water capacity (to save weight and prevent over use, I think)

Unfortunately, water often ends up in the crankcase (blown past the rings), not good for oil. Also may cause thermal shock or deposits on intake valve stems.

With today's knock sensors and computer injection, water injection could be managed and used, but as Craig suggests, the modern combustion chambers and computer controlled injection can avoid the overboost condition in the first place.

Monday May 19,

Only 3 days left, the plan is to leave on Thursday,arrive at Indy on Friday set up camp,enjoy the festivities the rest of Friday and Saturday, go to race on Sunday, then leave early Monday to be back in time for work on Tuesday.

I start my day by installing the batteries. My friends neighbor repairs and maintains golf carts, he got me a great deal on two 6 volt golf cart batteries. I hooked them up in series for the house, and I bought a optima red top 6-pack battery for the coach.

Time for all the fluids, I filled the radiator,hydraulic reservoirs,added the transmission fluid, filled the motor with shell Rola T oil and added the break in additive.

I crawled underneath to make sure the transmission was in park.

I went inside and pulled the distributor to prime the oil pump and build up oil pressure.Then replaced the distributor.

The moment of truth, I put the key in the ignition turn the key to on, hit the momentary toggle switch for the fuel pump to prime the carburetor.turn the key to start, and she fires right up. She running rough but I rush to top off the the transmission and hydraulic systems. The motor stalls, I try cranking it again, nothing I twist the distributor a little and she pops through the carburetor.

We pull the distributor bring the motor back to top dead center on the compression stroke, check the timing marks, point the rotor at # 1 drop the distributor back in.

We crank it again she fires up, still running rough,we try to time it and pops through the carburetor again.

We try cranking it again nothing By this time I'm aggravated, My friend has to leave to go to physical therapy for his shoulder.I decide to call it a day and go home.On the way home I'm thinking it's got to be something simple something we over looked,I'm just tired and need a break. I go home,have dinner with my family, get a good nights sleep,and start fresh in the morning.

Tuesday May 20,

7am, I am in the Barth sitting at the table drinking my morning coffee, staring at the motor .I'm thinking maybe the gear is slipping on the distributor shaft.

I take the distributor out and inspect it.But I can't find anything wrong ??? The gear is tight, the pin looks good,I can hold the gear and not turn the rotor.

I go though the motions of timing again. and install the distributor.I give it a crank it fires up. It seems to be running pretty good.I grab the timing light I start moving the distributor a little bit and POP then the motor stalls.

I'm thinking there got to be something wrong with this distributor, Maybe some how it's shorting out when I turn it.
I have another one I bought for a spare to have on the road.

I unpack it and swap it out going through the ritual of timing the motor again. I crank it over and it does the same exact thing.

I'm done. I go home and call some rental places,they are all booked for the weekend I'm thinking I guess we are going to tent it.

I decide to take my wife to lunch. During lunch my wife encourages me to not give up. When we return home there's a box on my front porch, it's the shifter. I take it and head back to the Barth. I start installing the shifter, then my friend Artie shows up and helps me finish installing and adjusting it.We have a beer and call it a night.

Wednesday May 21,

5am,I start the day by cleaning up all the clutter and organizing my tools and hardware.I give the distributor another go with the same outcome.

Well it is time to get my brother from the airport so i leave to pick him up. I'm hoping a new set of eye's on it will resolve the problem.

On the way back from the airport I explain my dilemma. We grab some lunch, then get to it. After going over every thing Robin asks me "do you have a ford distributor" I say yes and I go get it. We compare it to the other China one.



Amateur Mistake, I should have Took the hint when I had to modify the goose neck for this "Drop right in distributor" not to use it!

I pulled the other one out and shined a light down the cavity and check out the cam. It didn't look like it did any damage, Only time will tell at this point.

We install the Motorcraft distributor (That rainy Day came sooner then I thought). we crank it and it fires rite up, for the first time it sounds smooth. WE time it to vacuum and and to where it ran real good,but when we shut it down and tried to restart it the new high torque starter would not crank it.

Robin says with his big brother authority "haven't you learned to stay away from that aftermarket junk" so we install the original one.


That won't crank it either. So we retard the timing a few degrees until we get it to start, and lock it down. We start to adjust the carburetor And realize from all that popping we blew the power valve in the carburetor.

By this time it was too late to get one so we worked on tying up the loose ends.We cleaned and packed the Barth with the spare parts and Artie's and Karl's Gear. Then called it a night.

Thursday May 22,

We call a carburetor shop in Islip about a half hour away, The guy says he don't have time to do anything with it today but to come down and he'll put together a rebuild kit for it.

We go get it and when we got back Robin tackled the carb. and I worked on putting back the metal shields on the sides of the motor. After installing the shields, It looks like the motor is still too exposed to the wheel openings, Karl gave me some floor mats that I cut up and riveted Them in place and used wire ties to tie them together.





Robin finished the carb. We installed and adjusted it. Motor's running good. We give the breaks a bleed, check all the fluids and drive it to my house. We load our gear and head off, but the brakes don't feel right to me. So instead of heading west I head east to test drive it a little more.

The brakes seem worse and the brake pump belt is squealing and the break lite is going on and off with the peddle. We pull into a McDonalds it's 10:30 PM and everyone tired. So Artie and I start bleeding the brakes again, then drive back to my house. Robin and Karl fell a sleep wile Artie and I went over and tightened all the belts.

Friday May 23,

1:30 am, We are finally on the road Heading west, Indy here we come. Three Times a Charm Ran good for her maiden voyage. the only mishap we had was the top radiator hose blew off and we lost all our coolant some where in western PA. We finely pull into the Coka cola parking lot at INDY and set up camp at about 5:30 PM.

My other Brother Allan showed up the next Day.



Left to Right is My oldest Brother Allan, Myself, Karl, My Brother Robin,and Artie.


The End

WOW! What a great thread.

You are not the first to have distributor gear problems. I was warned about that when I changed distributors. Hopefully the cam gear is not too bad. The gear metal should be pretty fine, probably make it through the pump screen and into the filter with no harm, or better yet, lay on the bottom. Magnetic drain plug maybe?

I like the mud flap air dam for the engine. Good idea.

I am still tweaking my 454HO. It has about 1000 miles on now, broken in nicely. I am playing with timing and it keeps getting better, should be done soon.

Thanks again for your time to post and the great photos. What a great chick magnet! I am looking forward to meeting you and the crew sometime.

Thanks Steve did you make it down south yet, how your motor do on gas? I know mine is running on the lean side but on my last trip to Great Adventure. We averaged 9.5 miles per Gallon. That was all flat driving though.
I'm not too worried about the shavings what little there was all seemed to be caught in the grease and I was able to get it out with a rag and magnet. I do have a magnetic drain plug , I changed the oil at indy and there was no sign of metal.The biggest concern I have would be the longevity of the cam gear

I got about typical mileage on the way south. In the past I have seen 6.2-6.5 with ethanol, 7-7.2 with real gasoline.

I got 6.5 on the 2nd set of tanks but my initial stock timing was definitely too retarded. I advanced it yesterday and the engine really liked it. I will tweak timing some more until I get it close to, but not quite, knocking under load. I expect some improvement in mpg and I will keep you posted.

The real change would be an overdrive setup. Jury is still out there.

Keep an eye on that cam gear. Good luck.

The cam gear is typically hardened; the distributor gear is softer, allowing it to be a sacrificial (replaceable) part. I doubt you'll have any further issues.

Hey this might be a stupid question,but can any one tell me why when I read this post the coment by Doorman allways comes up as "ignored topic from Doorman " and I have to open it each time I go back, I just want to make shure I didn't do something wrong the last thing I would want to do is affend anyone.

In your Personal Profile settings, there is a link for Ignore list, maybe he got there by mistake?

Hopefully it would take more than that to offend most of us here… but if you did that to ME I would kick your @$$ !

That was it, don't know how it happened, sorry Doorman,I didn't mean it.and Steve we could settle any of our differences on the drag strip Lol