quote:

Originally posted by Gunner:
"the plastic bubble stuff with a foil backing that was attached to the headliner."
My understanding is: The "foil" sheet was generally the only thing used after about 1980.

On our 84, the few places I have removed or peeled back interior lining or ceiling have full thickness pink fiberglass insulation.

We use the foil/bubble sheet for window insulation at night in winter. On aircraft, we found it to be nowhere the equal of fluffy fiberglass.

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Has anyone been able to resolve this problem? I pulled a ceiling light and saw nothing between the roof and the fancy ceiling panels. So much for the Barth being a "quality coach". If there is not a reasonable fix- a new owner is next on my list, it is hot in summer and cold in the winter. What the world needs is a well insulated rv.

John, on my '93 Breakaway, the bubblewrap is just like yours. Mwrench's is the same. We believe that somewhere around '92 or '93, bubble wrap was standard at least on the Breakaways, but a customer could order fiberglass batts as an option. There was some conversation at a rally in Indiana with a former Barth employee that said their information was that bubble wrap was as good as fiberglass which of course is a bunch of hooey. It might be possible to remove windows, vents, a/c units and blow in some cellulose or even fiberglass but with the criss-cross design of the Barth structure, it's a little questionable how effective that would be. My '85 Regal has fiberglass batts in the roof and sidewall. Maybe someone could come up with a 'build sheet' from a late model Breakaway or Regency or Regal and see if fiberglass was shown as an option.
Even with the bubble wrap, Barth is better than any stick and staple out there. And some of them probably have questionable insulation as well.

Yes,I have this bubble stuff in my Breakaway, it is NOT good insulating material. I did have the conversation with a former Barth employee at the GTG and he said it was used, although I don't know how extensively, after 1991 or so. He further stated that they had tested it and found it to be equal to fiber glass bat insulation.

I find that hard to believe. I had a stick and glass SOB 28 footer before this Breakaway and it was so much warmer in cold weather and cooler in the summer. a single A/C unit would freeze you out. In the Breakaway it often takes both A/C units running just to keep it "somewhat" comfortable in hot weather.

The furnace runs continuously if the outside temperature gets less than 25 degrees.

I have been looking for a suitable way to "blow in" insulation or use a foam type. So far I have not had the time to address this issue but will in the near future. I like the idea of foam but it would be a huge amount of work to remove all the panels to get it done right.

I have experience with two part foam insulation for home application, it is great stuff!

I use Reflectix cut to fit inside my Pleasure-Way windows, or between windows and screens, to protect the upholstery. It also reduces passive solar gain a little bit. if it is not used as a barrier to form a trapped air space, it has an R value of merely 1.1

Keep us informed what you do Ed. I would like to get something done also but have looked at trying and everything is so well built and built over lapping that it looks to be a huge under taking.

Will do Dana, As I mentioned it will not be for awhile as my plate is so full with other activities.

What ever I do will be after much research as this can only be done once and hopefully that once will be enough.

I will probably start in the bedroom area first as there is less to work around and thru.

One of the things that I haven't seen on this thread is the subject of 'vapor barrier'. When cold meets hot, you always get condensation on the hot surface. That's why good contractors put a 6 mil vapor barrier over batt insulation in houses. Wouldn't that be a smart thing to do in a motor home? Especially with metal walls and roof? I know my metal shop building sweated like a trooper until I put spray foam on the inside. The closed cell foam not only creates some insulation but also acts as a vapor barrier. If I were going to re insulate any motor home I'd make sure some kind of vapor barrier would be involved. Without it, condensation would be present inside the walls both in winter and summer. I would also put in thermopane windows. I have Peninsula thermopane windows in the 85 Regal and not only do they help with heat/cold situations, they make a big difference with sound and are so well made that the leak problems others have mentioned are not present. At least I don't think they are and I've examined the window areas of the Regal very carefully.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim and Tere:
metal walls and roof? I know my metal shop building sweated like a trooper

once took a 16' Airstream to Northern Ontario in the Fall. Two adults and two small children. wife cooked. Condensation streamed down the vinyl-coated metal interior walls. trailer could have been called "Waterstream" instead of Airstream

I think new ones have a thermal break in the wall construction -- maybe duct tape like Barth's galvanic insulation

quote:

It seems to me that since these Barth's are perhaps 50% windows in surface area on the sides and windows are the worst for heat loss that anything you do to the walls or ceiling would be minuscule in comparison. Seems to me that all these would overwhelm any upgrades to the wall or ceiling insulation.

The windows are certainly a contributor to heat loss/gain! I have thermopane windows throughout the coach and and although they have a smaller gap than home windows they are much better than single pain windows. There is a large difference between the windshield and the side windows. I don't have anywhere near 50% window area.



I have done extensive examination around the areas you mentioned, doors, roof vents and yes there is loss there. I have pads or other insulating sheets that I use when in cold weather. Still not good! When measuring temperatures in various places, the walls are always hotter or colder than I would like.

I don't have an engine cover, it is a rear engine and the bed is the cover.

Here again we can get into all kinds of discussions about "vapor barrier" material.

Vapor barrier as installed on houses and building is used to reduce vapor intrusion thru the wall/ceiling material. Vapor barrier material comes in all kinds of material.

Jim what you see in your building with metal walls is condensation of moisture present within the build structure and condenses on the metal ceiling and walls because of the temperature difference. Anything to prevent water vapor from coming into the building and into contact with a colder surface will prevent condensation.

Same thing will happen inside a RV. Good example is how the moisture condenses on the windshield of my Breakaway and does not condense on the other windows (double pain). After a long night with everything closed up, our breathing moisture will condense to the extent of water running down the windshield. If we are not in the coach thru the night under the same conditions, no condensation occurs as water vapor source (our breath) in not there.

When wifey cooks, same thing will happen if the outside temperature is much colder than the inside and of course as stated the windshield being single pain will be colder.

The outside skin on my Breakaway is coated on the inside with a tar like substance, and certainly if there was insulation and vapor barrier between that and the luan would reduce vapor condensation but would not help the water vapor introduced into the air from cooking or breathing. I doubt there is much water vapor getting thru the aluminum skin. Of course that would not help the windshield situation. The RV is a very small space compared to a building.

I do place a piece of foil insulation in the windshield area and that helps but not completely.

That old Airstream not only had single pane windows, they were jalousie. talk about air infiltration!! ridiculous.
not aware of any windshields with captive air space layer. Mercedes had that for side glass on some S class cars.

Upon replacing the refrigerator in the Regal I found there is nothing but 3/4' plywood between the vented outside and the interior of the coach. On my Class C there is a open mesh screen at the front of the fridge that is open to the back of the vented compartment.

With great thermal transfer skins, 1-1/2" walls, windshields, no real amount of roof Insulation, roof AC that don't have much R-value, roof vents with no r-value, stove exhaust vents that seal very little. I have to think that climate control was low on Barth's design priority.

quote:

Originally posted by Doorman:
I have to think that climate control was low on Barth's design priority.

I think they met, but did not surpass, industry standards of the day in that regard. Some brands are far superior now, with sprayed urethane in walls and hi-R floor & roof panels.

OK, for you technical types and engineering types, here is some data!

Today, with my coach parked, the front half of the roof was under the sun and the back half was in shade.

I immediately noticed that the living area (front) was so much warmer than the back half. So to provide meaningful information-----

Outside air temperature was 80 +/- degrees

The head liner on the back half of the coach (in the shade) was at 80 +/- degrees.

The front half of the coach (under direct sunlight) head liner was at 102-110 degrees!

Will be performing more tests tomorrow, I think this information will be useful and will direct me to the proper course of action that I will take in the near future.

Stay tuned